Good Morning, I Love You / Meditation and Self-Compassion with Dr. Shauna Shapiro

Podcast
Written By Geneva Tolentino

Best-Selling Author, Professor, Clinical Psychologist and Internationally Recognized Expert in Mindfulness and Self-Compassion

SHOW NOTES | TRANSCRIPT

Renowned mindfulness expert Dr. Shauna Shapiro joins us for an insightful conversation on the transformative power of meditation and self-compassion.

Dr. Shauna Shapiro is a professor, author, and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and self-compassion. With over 25 years of experience, she integrates the ancient teachings of mindfulness with the latest scientific research on the brain. These practices have the power to rewire our brain and bring about lasting change in ourselves and our world. Dr. Shapiro is the author of several books, including the acclaimed "Good Morning, I Love You", the children's book "Good Morning, I Love You, Violet." and “The Art and Science of Mindfulness: Integrating Mindfulness Into the Helping Professions”

She is a summa cum laude graduate of Duke University and a Fellow of the Mind and Life Institute, co-founded by the Dalai Lama. Her TEDx Talk, The Power of Mindfulness, has been viewed over 3 million times.



In this episode, we cover:

  • Meditation and Its Benefits

  • Journey into Mindfulness

  • Influence of Teachers and Mentors

  • The Evolution of Shauna's Book "Good Morning, I Love You"

  • Practicing Mindfulness with Family

  • The Role of Neuroplasticity in Mindfulness Practice

  • The Importance of Practicing Mindfulness together and The Role of Community support

  • Shauna's Upcoming Work and Retreats


Helpful links:

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Shauna Shapiro  0:01  

The numbers are staggering. One of the real benefits of loving kindness practice, and Dr Barb Fredrickson has done studies at this at University of North Carolina, shows that it decreases loneliness and you don't even have to be with other people, just doing the practice makes you feel connected.


Christine Mason  0:21  

Well, hello everybody. It's Christine. We are back with a new season of the rose woman podcast, and today we are starting with meditation with an incredible guest, Shauna Shapiro, it just so happens that I was speaking with my son this morning, who has had a show called My good, bad brain and his wife, who has a show you might know ologies, and they have just been taking a transcendental meditation course inspired by the passing of David Lynch. Now you may not know this, but the wonderful artist, filmmaker in multiple disciplines, David Lynch of blue velvet fame and Eraserhead and all of these amazing, groundbreaking pieces of art. Was also an incredible advocate for Transcendental Meditation. He wrote a book called catching the big fish, about how dropping into stillness is the only place to really find your most inspired creativity. And he started a foundation which taught meditation in schools to both students and teachers. The Case for pedagogy being 50% the material that you present to students, and 50% their receptivity to being able to learn it, he felt required students to come into the classroom and teachers to come into the classroom with a down regulated nervous system. So they started doing these experiments in schools with silent time, quiet time at the beginning of the day and after any recess or lunch break, even just five minutes of sitting silently, doing nothing together, breathing, being present, getting still, brought the average reading level up two full grades within a year, and reduced voluntary turnover and reduced absenteeism among teachers by significant amounts. So, you know, there's a lot of data that says just the simple act of regulating your nervous system can create incredible benefits in your body. So I'm going to link to the TM programs that David Lynch was about, and also to some of his material in honor of him and his work, and also as a pointer to the possibility that sits within each one of us in our creative potential. So on to Shawna. I met Shawna many, many years ago in San Francisco, and she's just a radiant being. She started out with a book on meditation that was tied to neuros, and she's written many other books since then, the more recent one being good morning, I love you, and an accompanying journal, as well as a children's version of that book, Good morning. I love you, Violet. And they're all just absolutely charming and accessible, and they speak to both the transformational power of sitting in meditation as well as how you talk to yourself, self compassion and what that can bring about in your life. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with the incredible Shawna Shapiro.


I'm so pleased to introduce you all to an old acquaintance, Shawna Shapiro, who, if you've been in the bay area or in the mindfulness area at all, you'll you'll know her. She's become quite a guide for many people in meditation and mindfulness, and I was wondering if we might start with you, taking us back to a moment when mindfulness and these practices became meaningful to you. Was there a personal experience or a turning point that set you on this path?


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  3:56  

So when I was 17 years old, I had spinal fusion surgery. I had a metal rod put in my spine because I had scoliosis, and it worsened so rapidly. I went through a growth spurt, I guess, at age 17, and I grew three inches, and the curvature of my spine was so severe it was going to puncture my lungs. And so they had to operate immediately. I went from this healthy, active, you know, I was captain the volleyball team, to lying in a hospital bed, unable to walk. I was in the hospital bed for six months. I was in severe pain, physically, but it was really the mental anguish, right? I felt like my life had just gotten taken away from me, and all my dreams and all my hopes, and I became really depressed, really anxious. And you know, as a teenager, I didn't have the tools to cope. And luckily, my dad gave me a book by Dr John Kabat Zinn on mindfulness, called wherever you go, there you are. And I'll never forget the first line. It said. Whatever's happened to you, it's already happened. The only thing that matters is now what? And it was as if this path opened up for me, and I continued to read about mindfulness and to practice as best I could. And when I had healed, a couple years later, I went to Thailand and Nepal to study in the monasteries there and and really deepen my understanding of what mindfulness was. And it was those experiences there that set me on this trajectory for the last 30 years where I've really doven into both the practice of mindfulness, because I think it's so important to be nuanced in how we teach it, but also the science and what's actually happening in our brains and our bodies as we're practicing.


Christine Mason  5:46  

Yeah, I love the way that you integrate neuroscience with the practical, but also just you have a very loving, unconditionally loving presence in the way that you present and teach. And before we get into Good morning, I love you in this delicious book. Maybe you want to talk a little bit about the teachers and the people who have mentored you along this amazing path from 18 till now, which is like the fact that you got it at 18 is such a blessing. Takes so many people till they're like 55 oh, maybe I should meditate a little bit, you know. Anyway, so who guided you


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  6:18  

along this path? I mean, there have been so many teachers, I feel so blessed. You know, first of all, the monks in Thailand were absolutely extraordinary. I remember one, one actually a nun came and Sarita was her name, and she taught me about loving kindness and this unconditional presence that I was kind of missing a bit at the monasteries. I was very, you know, it was very Theravadin Buddhism. It was very austere, very masculine. And she brought this sweetness and this love that I think I really needed in that moment. And then I came back to the States, and I studied and trained with Jon Kabat Zinn, because I was so, you know, taken by his book, and he really started me on this path. And I did a internship at University of Massachusetts, kind of in the science and mindfulness, but then I ended up going on a month long silent retreat with Jack Kornfield, and that's where everything shifted. And Jack suggested I move out here to California. I was living in Arizona at the time, and I started training and studying and teaching with him. That really was a turning point for me, because I became part of this community, you know, being able to sit silent retreats at Spirit Rock, you know, multiple times a year, and to have people who are really dedicated in America instead of having to Thailand, so Jack and then Tara Brock has also been an amazing mentor and friend and teacher and so so many wonderful teachers.


Christine Mason  7:49  

Jack is in the Ram Dass community as well. And I met him in spring Washam. I think that a little bit of part of that Spirit Rock community wonderful. Yeah, to land there. So tell me about how you evolved to write this most recent book. That's


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  8:06  

a whole nother story. I was really diving deep into mindfulness and had maybe kind of sidestep self compassion wasn't kind of my main practice, and I was going through a difficult divorce. My our son was three years old, so I was very scared that we were ruining his life, and I felt devastated, and also just very like self critical, like, I'm a therapist, I'm a professor, I'm a meditator. Why couldn't I make this work, and I would wake up every morning with this pit of just fear and shame and self judgment, and one of my teachers said to me, they said, you know, you're practicing a lot of self judgment and fear you you always teach what you practice grows stronger. This is the foundation of neuroplasticity. Maybe you should try practicing a little self compassion. And she said to me, I want you to say I love you, Shauna, every day. And I was like, no way that sounded so contrived and inauthentic. It's not how I was feeling. And so she said, Well, how about just saying good morning, Shauna, when you wake up, just a little drop of kindness, instead of this self loathing, and she said, You know, I want you to put your hand on your heart, take a breath and just say, Good morning Shauna. So the next morning I, you know, I'm a good student, I took a breath, put my hand on my heart, and said, Good morning Shauna. And it was kind of nice, right? Instead of the avalanche of judgment and shame, there was this flash of kindness, and I kept practicing. And you know, I'd go into my son's room and I'd say, Good morning. I love you, Jackson. And it kind of became this ritual. But for myself, I would just stay with good morning. And a few months later, it was my birthday. I will never forget this. I was down at Esalen. In Big Sur, California, and the sun was rising, and I went down to the baths. They had these mineral hot springs over the water, and I was preparing to do my good morning Shauna practice, when an image of my grandmother, my Nana, came to me, and she had recently passed, and she she was my person, and so I felt her love, and before I knew it, I said, Good morning. I love you, Shauna. And it was as if the dam around my heart burst, right? This Love came pouring in. And I felt her love. I felt my mother's love. I felt my own self love, you know. And I wish I could say, every moment since then has been this miracle of self love and, you know, bliss, and that's not true. I still have a lot of self judgment. I still struggle, but that pathway had been established. I knew it existed. I knew how to get there, and I've been practicing good morning I love you ever since it's really evolved into this much greater practice of loving kindness, where I'll start with myself, and then I'll start sending it out to whoever pops into my mind. I mean, I remember one day the garbage truck was going by, and I'm like, Good morning. I love you to the garbage man. And so it starts the day in this very beautiful, very loving kind of a meta practice. And so I titled my book, Good morning. I love you. You know, a lot of people have said maybe that wasn't the ideal title, because I'm a scientist, and they said, you know, it's so soft and squishy. And so we actually retitled it in London and Europe. It's come out under a different title called rewire your mind. And I love both, because they're just for different moments in your life, but they're the exact same book I'm


Christine Mason  11:43  

going to vote for Good morning. I love you because I'll tell you one thing, I think your first book, like 2009 maybe, was on neuroscience and very, very like the neuroscience of meditation


at very serious, yeah, very


serious, scholar, lady, I mean, very qualified, good job. And then went on discipline, loving discipline and mindfulness. And I really feel this arc of your expansion, like you're a serious athlete, you know, you get this injury you like, really go, go deeply into the ascetic version of Buddhism. You study so hard, but then, like this loving softening over time. It almost feels like you're ripening, like there were bones, and then you added, like, flesh and scent and softness and kind of like, I don't know, I just, I really love it. I love it as a as a scholar and as a mother also, yeah, it's


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  12:41  

such a beautiful reflection. It feels so accurate that I kind of went in hard like a warrior, and I want to study the science, and I want to get the attention and this laser like focus, and that really, as I became a mother and really embodied a little bit more of the feminine, which is not very strong and Theravadan Buddhism, my practices have shifted. The way I teach has shifted, still with the foundation of science, which I think is essential, but there's a I love how you said it. There's a softening and like an embodiment, where there's still the laser, like clarity, but there's an ease in my being that wasn't there.


Christine Mason  13:21  

I love also that you got that you're Nana at Esalen. No, for those who haven't been there, eslins, at intersection of three waters, the salt water of the ocean, these sulfur hot springs and this river coming down from the mountains, very sacred space. And there's something even in the watery transmission that's a little bit feminine, you know, yes,


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  13:42  

beautiful. I agree. In fact, I will say, because I I teach retreats all over the world, but I teach at eslin Every year, and people ask me, you know, where they should go? I always say, go to Esalen, because the transformation that happens there is unlike anything I've ever seen. And I think there is something sacred and also something deeply like restorative in the feminine of the land, the kind of sacredness of the ocean and the mineral baths and the waters. Yeah,


Christine Mason  14:12  

it's one of my favorite places also. So yes, I'll if you heard that, everybody come to eslin, meet Chadha and be with her in real time. So this is a time of tremendous upheaval in our culture, in America, if you're listening from America, and probably in many other countries around the world, a lot of upheaval, a lot of change all of a sudden, or maybe it was actually, I don't believe in all of a sudden. It's just the part of the iceberg you didn't see or pay attention to. So if someone is really struggling with anxiety or worry, like like you were when you were in the middle of your divorce, I mean, where what would you recommend? Yeah,


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  14:53  

I'm so glad you brought this up, because mindfulness and self compassion are. Such powerful practices, so the first thing when you're struggling is to name your emotion. And I know this sounds very basic and simple, but they did a study at UCLA, and what they found is when you name your emotion, it actually calms down your physiology. So simply saying I'm scared or I'm overwhelmed or I'm confused, I don't know what to do. Is the first step, the second step, which we often skip over because then we try to fix it. The second step is just to offer ourselves kindness, sweetheart. This is hard, this is scary, right? Just to bring that loving voice that you would bring to a dear friend if she said she was scared. And then the final step, which I find incredibly helpful, is to reflect on all the other people who might be scared right now, all the other people who might be overwhelmed, and begin to send your love and compassion to them. May you may you feel safe, may this fear past. May you know that you're not alone, and then you bring it back to yourself, so you exhale, and you send out this loving compassion. And then may I feel safe, may I know I'm not alone, and this is what's called common humanity, this realization that we're not alone in our suffering. When we're in pain, we tend to isolate, we tend to think I'm the only one going through a divorce, or I'm the only one who's lonely. No, there's millions of people in this very moment who are struggling, just like you. And I want to be clear, this isn't about like thinking, oh well, there's starving children, so I shouldn't feel bad. This is not a comparison thing. This is literally thinking of the people who are struggling in a similar way as you. So for example, a lot of my work has been with women with breast cancer, and one woman was really struggling. She's a young mom, single young mom, and she was so overwhelmed by the diagnosis, so afraid, and we are doing the practices. And we were naming her emotions, fear, you know, the terror, overwhelm, anger, all the different emotions. And then we practice bringing kindness to ourselves, sweetheart, this is hard, and nothing was really penetrating her, right? And then we got to the common humanity. And I said, Now imagine all the other women right now who just got diagnosed, how afraid and how lonely they are. Send them your compassion. You're not alone. I care. I'm with you. I'm on your team, I'm rooting for you, and then send that back to yourself. I'm not alone, I'm on my team. I'm rooting for you, and that's where the shift happened for her. Yeah, I


Christine Mason  17:41  

mean, the idea that whatever is happening in you is also a frequency that happens throughout humanity. It's a very profound idea. And you're never really alone, although you're right, it sure can feel that way. Epidemic of loneliness is the current common knowledge, right? So if you you can do this alone, but you can also do it with a group, right? You could get people together and absolutely


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  18:03  

and I think it's incredibly powerful to practice together in community, and sometimes we're not able to, and that's why I love these practices, is then we just call to mind people we love. Call to mind our friends, our support system, and we just wish them well, we just offer our blessings, and all of a sudden we're connected. In fact, you know, you brought up the epidemic of loneliness, and what we found is that loneliness predicts your your rate of mortality, death and disease from all causes, more than obesity and smoking. The numbers are staggering. So I think one of the real benefits of loving kindness practice, and Dr Barb Fredrickson has done studies at this at University of North Carolina, shows that it decreases loneliness, and you don't even have to be with other people. Just doing the practice makes you feel connected. I'm gonna do


Christine Mason  18:58  

that right now. Let's see I feel I feel fear, and I feel okay. Let me try the thing you said, Sweetheart, I can see you're feeling fear. That's okay. That's a human feeling. Then imagine all the other people who are feeling fear, anybody who's not like willing to leave their home because they might be detained, or anybody who's pregnant and might not be certain about their health care, or anyone who's in war. Oh my gosh, there's so many people, and I'm going to send them my love, and then I'm going to feel that come back to myself. Oh,


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  19:43  

it does feel better and out your loving compassion, and then you breathe it back to yourself, and that, that for me, is where the shift happens. Because when I try to bring kindness to myself right away, it doesn't always land, but when I think of people struggling. And I send them my love and I feel how I'm rooting for them, then I can more easily bring it back to myself. I call it the boomerang. It's the boomerang. I love it


Christine Mason  20:10  

such a bomb thing. It's like the boomerang of saying I love you to yourself, yeah, yeah. Trick yourself into it by saying it to your kid. First, good job. Exactly.


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  20:20  

I'm like, go where it's easy, lube up the pathway and then just sneak it back in. So


Christine Mason  20:24  

when you change the name to rewire your brain for the European market, is that how it works? Like you're kind of reprogramming your brain through self talk? Or can you say a little bit more about that? Yes,


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  20:35  

I wouldn't say you're reprogramming through self talk. I'd say it's much deeper the brain and nervous system are not stupid. So you can't lie to yourself. So you can't just be like everything's okay when you're afraid, right? So wait,


Christine Mason  20:48  

What? What? I can't lie to myself. What are you talking about? That seems to have functioned for 40 years, just so you know, kitty kitty, kitty kitty kitty, okay. You can't lie to yourself. Your deeper subconscious knows, right? So


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  21:01  

what we're doing with these practices is we're literally carving out new neural pathways. And I think one of the best examples, and I love this, is that you start to see the amygdala get smaller in people who meditate. Now, the amygdala is our kind of alarm bell. It's like, ah, there's a problem, and it's it's trying to protect you, but when it's over active, it creates a lot of anxiety and stress that maybe you don't need, and it ends up hijacking the nervous system, right? It's called the amygdala hijack. It gets hijacked by fear. So you start to see just by feeling my breath, just by bringing kindness to this moment, I start to ever so slowly, shift my nervous system, shift my amygdala. So when I say rewiring, I'm not saying, you know, bring in positive affirmations and different self talk, I'm saying literally rewire at this physiological level. And you can see this in so many different ways. You can start to, you know, one of the practices that I love is is called looking for glimmers. Looking for glimmers is part of polyvagal theory, and glimmers are these micro moments of goodness. And as you start to orient, instead of toward your negativity bias, where we look for what's wrong or what's scary, as you start to orient your attention towards the good, it starts to reduce cortisol. The nervous system gets reprogrammed, and you start to have a lower baseline where you're not as reactive. And I think for me, it's, you know, my phrase is, what you practice grows stronger. And I really believe that that this is a form of mental fitness training. And just like you can't have someone exercise for you, and you can't fake it if you're not really lifting the weights, same with meditation practice, you have to actually go in there and experience it from the inside out, and that's where you become trustworthy to yourself. Yeah, this


Christine Mason  23:09  

practice of catching the light when it hits a crystal in a certain way and makes a prism, or a kindness that you noticed in the street, or a gesture your partner makes love and kind you know, there's just so many moments when you start to cultivate that noticing, kind of infinite, actually. So let's talk a little bit about carrying this through to your family. How are you doing this with your son? And what do you recommend for parents? Perfectly imperfect. Perfectly imperfect My love, I


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  23:42  

will be very honest that that motherhood has been one of the harder things in my life, and I love my son and actually all My children, because I have three step children now, I remarried some years ago, and was so blessed not just in meeting my true love, but with his children, it was a blessing I wasn't expecting. You know, everyone tells you horror stories about the blended families, but this family is, wow, that's all I have to say. They They welcomed my son in so seamlessly, so graciously, and really have supported him and through a lot, and they're truly family. And, you know, there's lots of complexity. And so for me, I think a couple of things. One is parents hear about this stuff and they're like, I want to teach my kids immediately. I want to get them to meditate. And I get it, because that's how I feel, that when you learn that the child's brain from age zero to seven is in a theta state. So it's basically plastic. It's like they're literally hypnotizable. You start thinking as a parent, I gotta get some good resources in there for them, right? I don't want them just like, you know, videos. I want to start to train their mind and their. Hearts in self compassion, in mindfulness. So the first thing I did when I learned this is I wrote a children's book. It came out last year. I am not a child psychologist, so I really want to say that up front, and I felt like this is the most important thing if I want, if I want, one thing for my kids, it's that they love themselves, that they're kind of themselves. And we never say that to our children. You know, we're like, be nice to Joey, but we never say, be nice to yourself. And so I love this children's book. It's called Good morning. I love you violet, and it's about a young girl's journey to self compassion. So I, having said that I also think it's important not to force mindfulness on your children. So, for example, my son, I tried for years to get him to meditate with me. Years and years, we went to family camp at Spirit Rock. We went to different meditation camps, and he was like, No way, no how. And then I married my husband and his 16 year old said, Hey, that seems like really interesting stuff. You want to meditate? We started meditating, and I will say, No. Now He's 22 so it's been five years, six years since he's been meditating, and now my son is like, ooh, that seemed to work really well. And now he's begun his own practice. But it's not because I told him to I will say it's wonderful to share with your family. It's an incredible practice to do together. It's incredible language to have where we can talk about sending each other, you know, loving thoughts when we're struggling to send ourselves loving thoughts. So I think for parents, the most important thing is to practice yourself, to embody it, and then the kids kind of see it and they're like, Oh, I noticed you're not getting so reactive anymore. What you doing?


Christine Mason  26:53  

Yeah, I think you have made a very important point around modeling it and not preaching. That's very beautiful. And also it's interesting if you go back to sort of where you were when you first discovered it, that sort of timing of coming into an age where you're making your own choices, 1617, that's what I found, too, with my son. I have, you know, I have a bunch of adult children, and my one of them, when he turned 18, he decided he wanted to come to yoga teacher training, which was after making fun of me relentlessly for practicing and teaching yoga for, like, being going completely cult, he said, at one point at 14. But you know, they come around somehow. Yeah, and on the step parenting thing, also very beautiful narrative. I hope that you take the time at some point to write a new narrative about step parenting. You know, I think, I think when, when I, I remarried, and my kids at the wedding, they broke into the ceremony and married each other. Oh, his kids and our and my kids, they they like, did their I take you as my sister. I take you as my brother like before we even got to our vows, it was very sweet. Wow. Anyway, but, but all of these themes of, you know, trying to live into it, and and being soft with yourself, and just knowing and trusting over the long run that your love for them and your practice will rub off. Feels a lot less pressurized than hovering around them getting it. It reminds


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  28:26  

me of that beautiful Rilke quote he says, Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart, right? And try to love the questions themselves, because the answers couldn't be given to you now, right? And I, as I recall the last line of it is, Someday, you'll live your way into the answers, beautiful. You're not ready for them, so live your way into the answers. And that's what we're doing, beautiful.


Christine Mason  28:52  

So I know that people will want to go and check out these books and your retreats. Will you talk a little bit about what you're living into now in these coming months or years.


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  29:05  

So I did, I mentioned eslin, I am teaching another retreat there in May. It's actually over Mother's Day weekend, but it's for everyone, so I'm looking forward to that, and they can find on my website, good morning, I love you. Rewire your mind? Good morning. I love you, Violet. And I think for me, my passion right now is to make these teachings accessible and available to everyone. So I have a number of free meditations on my website. I have a lot of the research available. But what I think is interesting is that mindfulness is deceptively simple. Same with compassion. They're deceptively simple. They seem like, oh yeah, just be present, or just be kind. But there's so much nuance, and you really miss the transformational, radical power of of these practices if you don't understand them. So my passion has been and continues to be, really. Understanding, like, what is mindfulness, really? And, yeah, it's about attention, but it's also about paying attention with kindness and being intentional. Where do I want to place my attention with this precious resource I have? Right? I believe our attention is our most valuable resource, right? Wherever you put your attention that becomes your life. And you can think about negative, scary things, and you can think about what's beautiful and what you're noticing and what you're grateful for, and that changes everything. So I think my passion, what I'm living into is, is the embodiment of these practices in a way that's so clear and so easy that a five year old can understand, and a 10 year old and a 95 year old that it becomes not some strange, mystical Buddhist thing, but just a way of being human.


Christine Mason  30:52  

I learned recently that the first yoga sutra, this yoga chitta, Vritti, nirodha, was usually translated to ceasing the fluctuations of the mind, but it's actually meaning exactly what you just said, that you can direct the attention of your mind in towards where you want it to go. You're not at its mercy. The mind serves you. Very beautiful. I feel like we've entered with this conversation around compassion and softness and mindfulness, a new era that goes away from sitting up on the cushion straight, with your back like this, and your arms straight and your fingers and chin mudra and hope greeting, which is the picture I think a lot of people still have about meditation. Oh, it


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  31:38  

was such an amazing day when I was sitting on this silent retreat. It was a month long retreat, and, you know, I still have a metal rod in my spine, so I get pretty uncomfortable sitting, and I just started to sway on my little meditation cushion. I started to sway, and I kind of started to dance, but very, very, very settled, no one would even notice. And the way that it opened my energy, and the way it softened my body, and then my attention wasn't so rigid and harsh. It was soft, it was kind, it was compassionate. And that shifted everything for me. And I remember kind of sneaking in to have an interview with one of the teachers and like, is it okay if I moved during meditation because I had studied for so long with a wonderful teacher, Shinzen Young, but he had had a, you know, we would do these two hour sits where we would take a vow of non moving, and we were like, you can't even sneeze. You would just sit still. And it does build incredible concentration. So I'm not saying it's not valuable, but I think it's important to have all of it available to


Christine Mason  32:43  

people. Better watch out. You're sounding a little bit like a tantrika.


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  32:47  

I've been told that just gonna meditate,


Christine Mason  32:49  

gonna be meditate, doing this the whole time, spirals in the spine. So is there anything that you would like to leave us with as we're going


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  32:59  

Yeah, yeah. I think one thing that I think is really important that we haven't quite touched on, is the reason that I study the science is because it's incredibly hopeful neuroplasticity, which we literally only discovered. You know, back in the 1990s it wasn't all that long ago, neuroplasticity, what this, what it says, is that no matter what's happened to you, no matter what mistakes you've made, it's never too late. You can begin again. You can begin again in any moment. And it's so Exactly. It's such a huge exhale. It's like, Oh, it's okay. That's particularly


Christine Mason  33:36  

relevant for a lot of the people who listen to this show and who are Rosebud people in general, it's a lot of women over 45 over 50. I can't tell you how many of them are like, I'm too old and I'm like, No, you're not. It's like you're just beginning. You're entering the prime of your life. You know yourself a lot more, and you have another 30 or 40 years to go. Just begin. Metanoia, one step, one new breath, one gesture of kindness. And, you know, I know it's can be daunting, but just like Dr Shapiro is saying, You are a neuroplastic being, yes, ma'am, flexible in mind, body and spirit, and we're and helping each other, doing it together.


Dr. Shauna Shapiro  34:19  

Yeah, beautiful


Christine Mason  34:22  

five takeaways for me from this show. One, take the time to sit and be still. Two, say nice things to yourself. Start with yourself. Learn how to value yourself. Say, I love you yourself in the mirror. Three, practice in community. Four, continue to soften and grow your whole life long five practice meta and compassion everywhere you go. If you enjoyed this show and you want to learn more about Shauna work or her books, I've put the links in the show notes. As always, if you comment on the episode, you're entered to win a collection of her writing. Just comment. The episode in Spotify or leave a review on Apple podcasts, and some lucky listener will have all three of her recent books sent to them. Please support Rosebud woman. Rosewoman.com the sponsor of this show, making beautiful, intimate and body care products and radiant farms.us. Maker of psychoactive gummies for human wellness derived from Sacred plants worldwide. Also, if you'd like to join in person, we are running a retreat in the Blue Ridge Mountains in North Carolina, may 14 to the 19th, 2025 and you can find out more information about christinemariemason.com just go to the events tab. Look up Blue Ridge Mountains. It's right there. It's going to be an exceptional program with some of the most loving and potent co guides in embodied joy. And I know you will have an amazing experience. So you can find out more about that, and let me know if you want to join us. All right, everybody, all love, all the time. You




Geneva Tolentino
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