Being the Medicine and Refuge with Sister Lucy of Maher
When a broken heart turns into a blueprint, one woman can quietly change the fate of thousands. In this episode, Christine sits down with Sister Lucy Kurien, the visionary founder of Maher (“Mother’s Home”), an interfaith, caste-free network of homes for women, children, and men in India.
Called to Serve
Sister Lucy Kurien was born in 1956 in Kolayad, Kannur District, Kerala, India. After several years of formal education, at age 14 she moved to Mumbai, where she was profoundly distressed by the appalling poverty and squalor in the city. Having carried a strong inner desire for justice since childhood, she felt a deep calling to make a difference in the lives of the poor and famished around her. In 1980, she joined Sisters of the Cross, a religious order. It was a difficult decision that meant giving up the bliss of an independent and free life. After 4 years of training, she was professed to the order.
Taking Her Work to the Streets
Nine years later, Sr. Lucy left the convent’s cloistered walls and, in 1989, joined HOPE (Human Organization for Pioneering in Education), which helped marginalized women gain modest employment and was founded by one of her own colleagues at the Sisters of the Cross. A traumatic incident resulting in the death of a pregnant woman and her unborn child at the hands of her drunken husband prompted Sr. Lucy to realize that she could no longer be a silent spectator to the horrific violence and abuse against women. In 1997, Maher, which means “Mother’s Home,” was founded to provide safe haven for battered and destitute women.
The Birth of Maher
Sister Lucy started Maher activities in a small home in Vadhu Budruk, near Bhima Koregaon on the Ahmednagar highway. Her tireless efforts and the work of the dedicated staff led to the expansion of Maher activities to nearby areas. These include the villages in Shirur, Haveli and Khed talukas, as well as the city of Ratnagiri, Miraj & Satara in Maharashtra. Beyond Maharashtra, Maher has established homes in Kerala, Jharkhand, West Bengal, Karnataka, Bihar and Andhra Pradesh. In 2011, unable to ignore the plight of abandoned men on the streets, Maher opened its first home for destitute, aged, and mentally challenged men. Today Maher reaches the life of the poorest of the poor through as many as 25 different outreach projects, including 672 village self-help groups and 75 interfaith, caste-free homes that currently shelter 996 children and 292 men and over 798 destitute women. Since its founding, Maher has provided care and shelter for more than 6200 children, 6,500 women, and 850 men.
In this conversation, you’ll hear how Sister Lucy transforms heartbreak into practical compassion—turning love into food, shelter, education, mental health care, and long-term dignity.
Press play to hear Sister Lucy’s extraordinary story and what it truly means to be “the medicine and refuge” in a hurting world—and if her work moves you, please donate to Maher. Your listening amplifies her message; your giving helps keep “Mother’s Home” open for those who have nowhere else to turn.
(00:00:00): Introduction to Sister Lucy as a Living Practitioner of Love and Founder of Maher
(00:04:10): Sister Lucy’s Childhood in Kerala and First Exposure to Urban Poverty in Bombay
(00:08:28): Choosing Religious Life
(00:10:40): The Pivotal Domestic Violence Incident and Sister Lucy’s Overwhelming Guilt and Rage
(00:16:57): Leaving Institutional Security to Follow Her Mission with No Money or Personnel
(00:18:09): Building the First Maher Home
(00:21:20): Maher as Interfaith and Caste-Free
(00:23:27): “I Am Not Leaving Anyone, I Am Including Everything” as a Core Spiritual Move
(00:26:45): Story of the Woman Chained to a Tree and Misunderstandings of Mental Illness as “Possession”
(00:34:51): Scale of Maher’s Current Work: Homes for Women, Men, Children, and Education Outcomes
(00:35:54): Patriarchy, Gender Disparities, and Slow Change for Women in India’s Villages
(00:38:01): Meeting Pope Francis and Asking Him to Ordain Women and Support Women Religious in the Villages
(00:41:04): Calling for Equal, Not Overpowering, Feminine Leadership—Win-Win Rather Than Reversal of Dominance
(00:43:16): Sister Lucy’s Vision at 30 Years of Maher: Preparing Next-Generation Leadership and Inviting Others to Learn and Replicate the Maher Model
(00:46:43): Focusing on the One Thing You Can Do Instead of Being Paralyzed by Global Pain
(00:50:35): Invitation to Support
Helpful links:
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Transcript
Christine Mason 0:05
They had asked me to come and teach sexual activation and like getting body and all of this sort of sensual play, and and then they said this 70-year-old Catholic nun is going to be.
Sister Lucy Kurien 0:18
Oh, I didn't mind at all that you know, she's gonna be
Christine Mason 0:23
so hot. Oh, she's gonna think I'm like dirty. Oh my God! You know, I was I was very nervous, and then you're then you were so fun, and so you were so inclusive and accepting of everything that we were doing, and you just played along, and and I was so relieved. Thank you for making me comfortable as a as a lost Catholic girl.
Sister Lucy Kurien 0:43
No, no, no. I I don't have anything of that kind of a problem or anything. No, really, I just go with the flow, whatever wherever I am. There are also people who are opposite to my thinking. You know, like I believe in divine energy and things like that, and people don't like to think of that. It's okay, you know. So there are people of different type, but I'm I'm very much at home with all of them.
Christine Mason 1:09
The giant-hearted sister Lucy. Hello, everybody. It's Christine Marie Mason, and this is the Rose Woman Podcast. One of the things I like best about this post-child rearing life that I've designed is the ability to travel and teach and meet wonderful people from all over the world who are doing impactful things. And this past June, in a small town on the coast of Portugal, I was asked to teach embodiment practices, gender equity and reconciliation retreat with the wonderful Will Keepin and Cynthia Brix, primarily for their facilitators from around the world. It's the kind of work I do with breath and sensuality and the body's aliveness. And then someone mentioned that a 70-year-old Catholic nun from India is one of the facilitators. And I'll be honest with you, I was I was quite nervous. I had a whole story running, like that she was going to think I was scandalous, and she might disapprove in some way. But in fact, she turned out to be one of the most enthusiastic and playful people there. That nun was Sister Lucy, and by the end of the week, I understood that I was in the presence of one of the great living practitioners of love, not as a sentiment, but as a method. In her case, with the construction budget. So she will tell you about growing up in a village and a lot about her family, and she will talk about a night that really cracked her open to her life's mission, a night that didn't come without a price. So, what happened that night, and I will let her tell it. It's quite hard to hear. Set a new course for her, and out of that night came Maher. Maher means my mother's home. It opened 30 years ago in January in a village outside of Puna, with one woman and two children in her sanctuary. And today, Maher is 75 homes across seven states of India. At any given time, more than 1200 women, 1000 children. There are also homes for men, homes for elders, homes for those who have been cast out as mad. All with the Bible, the Quran, and the Bhagavad Gita sharing a single sanctuary, and a banner on the wall that says "Love is our religion. She's transcended and included all of the faiths, and even those who have no faith. She has advised presidents and told a pope to his face to ordain women, and she has also cut a chain out of a woman's flesh with her own hands, bathed her, and taught her to sew. This conversation does include an account of domestic violence and a death told with great tenderness. If that is close to your own story, listen with care in your own timing and with support around you if you need it. But if you have ever wondered what difference a single person can make who is turned on to a mission in life, which is kind of the theme of this month. Then this conversation with the giant-hearted Sister Lucy is for you. I
Sister Lucy Kurien 4:10
grew up in down south of India, in Kerala. In a, I was born in a very traditional Catholic family, where we had. I mean, my parents had nine children, and growing up with nine siblings were really great joy. You know, my parents, my father and mother. Father was a farmer, my mother was housekeeper. For me, what I felt it was that was my little world, and then later on, I thought of traveling to Bombay because somebody offered me that if I go to Bombay, I can do my higher studies because in the village that I was growing up, there was no high school there. It was only the. I mean, up to seven standard, and then they told me, of course, we can put it into school. So I traveled to Bombay. You know, it was my first time the train journey, and everything was exciting. But what was the my real life story was that you know when I was growing up in that little village, we had no electricity. We used to pull the water from the well. There was not a newspaper, nor a radio. Of course, TV also was not heard of that time. So my understanding was that my little Kerala is the whole world. So as I was traveling, I found there are no trees in some place. You know, it used to take four days that time. Anyway, I reached Bombay, and then I saw the crowd. I saw the slums, and the place that I was staying, it was very close to the slum. And I used to wonder why the people are staying like this? Because I had no clue about slum. I knew only village, but not the slum. And I was wondering why no people are doing anything like to save these people. In my small mind, I couldn't understand anything because I did not know the language. I did not know English, know Hindi. That's the local language, and Marathi, which was the local language of that from Bombay, and I couldn't understand a word. And I thought, what is happening here? Why these people live like this? You know, everything was a question. I had seen even people going to that toilet on the road holding an umbrella, this was the time I know what I had seen at that time, and in my heart I I used to have a lot of pain, and I didn't understand what was happening, and later on I discovered Mother Teresa's home because you know I was feeling very homesick, leaving my brothers and sisters at home. Later on, I when I found Mother Teresa's home, I was so happy because I had seen children there, and I used to go to play there because my spare time I would because it was very close to the place where I was staying, I think when I was about 15 or 14, I don't remember exactly. I saw Mother Teresa from a very distant place. You know, the crowd was so much. And I said, "Oh my God, this is the lady who has put all these things together. But then, after some time, I forgot all about it. And then, when I was about 19, I really thought of joining Mother Teresa because very often I was going there. But then, when I went back home, because my Mother Teresa sisters gave me a form to fill up, so I went with that form back to my home to tell my mother that I was going to join Mother Teresa's, and I thought they will be very happy. But my parents they really opposed my idea. They said, "Where you are going, Mother Teresa's? Because she they had heard Mother Teresa was picking up leprosy patients, you know. So they said, "No way you can go there. They were so afraid.
Christine Mason 8:26
Join the continent to become a nun.
Sister Lucy Kurien 8:28
So I did not want to make my parent parents sad in any way because, and I was very very fond of them. So I, what you call, I tore that form. I threw it out and I give up the idea of joining Mother Teresa's, and then again, sometime went back. I went back, went back to Bombay, and again, I I don't know what was happening. I wanted to become a nun. Then I found one of the Holy Cross nun, and she was a very happy person, and I told her, "You look so happy, and I want to join Holy Cross because I came to know that she's from there. And she welcomed me. She told me, "Come. I went back to my parents. I said, "Now there are no leprosy patients here, and I can go to the sisters. But again, you know, my parents opposed my idea, but I was little bit insistent, and I managed to go with. I was a bit stubborn, and then I joined the Holy Cross, and I was there with them for nine years, and that was a big turning point because in our Holy Cross there was an option for the poor, and I said, "My God, this is what I've come for. And now, what am I doing? I started thinking, and it was the congregation chapter time, and I said, "No, I really want to work." The poor and be like the poor because in the Holy Cross where I was living we had another type of lifestyle, and I really thought of giving up that. And then I went and I joined one of her sisters who was doing the village work. I took it took me long time to get that permission because it's not easy for us to get the permission through, but somehow I managed. Took me very long, nearly two years, to express my desire to go there. I went there and I joined. It is called Hope Organization. I went there and I joined. I was very happy, but there was an incident where a woman had come to me asking for shelter. She told me that her husband is fully drunk and he is also in love with somebody, and he has asked me to leave the house. So I need shelter somewhere for a night. And she also told me that she is seven months pregnant, and I could see that because she was pregnant, the sisters who were in the convent also got frightened. They told me, Lucy, see, you don't know what you are asking for. Supposing you take her inside and say something happens in the night, what will we do? Which I felt was also true. What the nuns were saying, but I had a great desire to help her out, but in what way to help I did not know. So I sent her back. But what happened was that that very night I think she and her husband, their master, had a usual fight, and in that anger, he poured kerosene and set her on fire.
Christine Mason 11:44
So the exact thing that she was worried about happened.
Sister Lucy Kurien 11:47
Yeah, exactly what happened. I heard the noise, like people, you know, around were shouting, yelling. So I went to look what was happening because I was somewhat a little bit involved in that particular village because we were giving type of training things like that. So I was bit involved in that. So I heard the noise. So I ran there. When I reached there, I realized this is the same woman who had come to me because her hair was all burned and saree was burned, and she was like sitting on the thing, and she was yelling in heaven, "Save me, save me! The people helped me, of course, to put out the fire, and you know, lots of things happened that night. It was so difficult for me to even to express what was going on. You know, it was such an interior place that we had no car of our own. Nobody owned the car. It took me some time to just to reach her to the nearby hospital. When I reached the hospital, doctor told me that we can't do anything. She is already 90% burned. I asked doctor somehow save the baby because you know, I didn't understand at that time if a woman gets burned, the baby also will be burned. I didn't understand that. I thought baby will be still alive. You know, I was insisting on the doctor, please, doctor, save the baby. And since I was so much insisting, doctors operated on her. But what I got in my hand was a fully burned baby. I I I can't tell you what I was feeling that night. I was so angry with myself, so frustrated, not knowing what I should do. I was helpless standing there, and of course, the hospital people were very cooperative, and after all the procedures, I came home. But when I came back to my community, I was not the same. I was so you know I was so angry. I was so frustrated, like I was you know like wanting to turn the breakfast table upside down, you know that anger I was feeling. Only I had seen this pain, and the other nuns had not gone through it, so they didn't understand the pain that I was going through and the frustration. And the days went by, and I was really angry with myself more and more. This guilt feeling was inside me. Okay, so I was all the time blaming myself, like for the death of the two people. Finally, the nuns found that you know I am becoming someone else, very angry person. I was never like that. I was a happy person, and so the nun sent me for counseling. The counselor was a very good Catholic priest. Though he was a Catholic priest, he used to teach Bhagavad Gita in Pune University and all that. So I was lucky that I met him. Then I explained to him what I was going. And you know, at one point of counseling session, he told me, Lucy, why are you waiting like this? Why can't you go and do something for the women of this type? I heard him and I laughed because you know, for me, I felt he has not understood that I am a nun, am a Catholic nun, without any money, without any education. What I will do, you know. And but one time he told me, if you have love in your heart, everything will be possible. And okay, this sentence struck me very much, and I came back and I wrote to my superiors that I want to go and do something for the women who are suffering. All the sisters heard me and they just smiled because they all understood she doesn't understand what she is asking for. Anyway, after a long struggle, they give me permission. If you are insisting that you want to do something, you can go. But they told me that they will not be able to help me with any money, no personnel, no other person can come with me.
Christine Mason 16:17
Just permission to go and be a nun. Do what you can do. Get together what you can get together.
Sister Lucy Kurien 16:23
Yeah,
Christine Mason 16:23
that point you're making about the anger that arises from the combination of guilt and powerlessness, and and not being on your mission, and also, like I feel when I listen to that story, such a frustration at the fear that people hold, the risk aversion that oh I don't know what if something happens we can't help you because of the risk and you know you just you have to take that risk you know because because otherwise this sort of abandonment of the of the other the one that's suffering is like abandoning your own self you know
Sister Lucy Kurien 16:57
yeah
Christine Mason 16:57
so you go out in the villages and and then how did you make your first move?
Sister Lucy Kurien 17:03
Yeah, the sisters told me that you can still remain a member of the congregation, but you don't have to. I mean, you don't have to leave the congregation. You try and do whatever you can. You know, so that was they didn't give me any money also. So I went out. I started talking to people because you know the some of the village people. Since I was involved in the village, they knew about it, and so they all started talking about it. They were gaming me like you know they were very poor people, the slum people. Okay, they started giving me like two rupees sometimes one rupee, things like that. And then I met a man from Austria. He was talking to me, and I spoke to him all about my dreams and things like that. And he got so interested. The same priest had put me in touch with that man and his son. The whole family, they are musicians. He heard me and he said, "Oh, this is a good idea. I would like to help a women's project.
Christine Mason 18:09
So, did you know already in your vision that it would be for what we would call domestic violence?
Sister Lucy Kurien 18:15
Yeah, the priest had already spoken about me to him that there is a nun like this who wants to do something, and he also was interested. So when I was telling him, he asked me if I give you some money, what will you do? So I had a dream project already in my head. So I explained to him that you know I want to buy a small piece of land, and I want to build a home for the people who are in emergency like this, and I want to build a home for at least for 20 people. So you know, before leaving India, he gave me about how do you call it about $1,000 at that time. That was enough for me to buy a small piece of land, and in 1993, I purchased the land, and only in 97 I was able to build a home, my first home. So I built that in 1997, and I moved into that home with one woman and two children. And with that, now we have 75 homes in seven states of India. 1000s of people had been through the experience of Maher. There were more than 5000 children who got educated in Maher, and now they are out. They had also now become Maidanas in many forms, that type of a kind of encouragement. Of course, I went through lot of fear of failure. I were I was very what you call. I struggled a lot in the beginning because I did not know the language or the place. Being a lady in India on leadership, it is not very much accepted. Like I'm talking about 35 years ago, and this home is now 30 years, and so you know at that time, women's leadership in the village, it is not at all was accepted in the Indira villages, and I started this home in Indira village because the land was much cheaper here, and that's why I bought that. Because with that amount, I couldn't find anywhere in Pune city. So in the outskirt of Pune, I brought this small piece of land where I am sitting now. I hope one day you can come and see it.
Christine Mason 20:41
I'm definitely coming. I one of the things I love to hear is even though you're a Catholic nun, Maher is steadfastly interfaith and cast free.
Sister Lucy Kurien 20:50
Yeah,
Christine Mason 20:52
and I wonder how you hold your own devotion while making room for every tradition and no tradition, like people who don't have a faith under one roof. It's it's quite ecumenical or interfaith. Yes,
Speaker 1 21:05
yes.
Christine Mason 21:06
How is that for you? Like, how has your concept or your image of God changed after 30 years of sitting with so many different faiths and so many women who have survived the worst of what what these institutions of patriarchy can do?
Sister Lucy Kurien 21:20
Yeah. Well, that's a very interesting question on a very interesting subject for me, because when I thought of starting something for women and children, I immediately thought it will be for people. Religion, no caste, no class will come in the way of my life. If I am starting a home for women, that was for sure. So when I started the home, you will see the banner behind me. I kept that banner in the main sanctuary, and I also kept the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, and everything in a main sanctuary, and so there was lot of objection from the church and also everyone around. So you know, like people thought I left the church, people thought I left my religion and things like that. Because if you go to see even my medal with all the religion, I appreciate the teachings of Jesus very much inside me, and that is why I can do what I am doing. That's what I feel. But at the same time, you know, I would like to learn what other religions are offering to us, like when I heard about the Buddhism and the meditation things like that. I really got very much attracted, and I went in many times for the Parsana meditation and things like that. And my congregation somehow did not object to my practice. Of course, in the beginning they felt a bit threatened, and when they understood that I am only embracing everybody, I am not leaving anyone. They also appreciated, but some priests and all who came and asked me, "What is the canon law teaching you is canon law allowing you to this this this and all, but I told the kind of people. See, I don't know. I have not learned anything about canon law, but I know only one thing, and that is law of love.
Christine Mason 23:35
This phrase you just said. Can we just pause on that phrase? You said, "I'm not leaving anyone. I'm including everything. That that was such a beautiful example of your heart growing big enough to love the world, and so many people feel like we're at war between the religions and actually literally go to war. And so this movement that you've made in your heart, not to leave anyone but to include, I find so, so the core of of what spiritual life is about. Beautiful,
Sister Lucy Kurien 24:08
being at home. If you are at home with your own religion, I think you will be at home with anyone.
Christine Mason 24:15
That's right.
Sister Lucy Kurien 24:16
So the first thing is that to be strong enough to believe in God, and once you believe in that universal energy, you can be at home with anyone. And the non-believers also are my friends. I have so many atheists who tells me, "Lucy, I don't believe in any God. It's okay, but they will. They also believe in goodness. They know kindness. So, what more you want that? Okay. If the people believe in goodness, kindness, understanding, let the people be what they are. You know, we don't have to show that my religion is great or. The other one is great. Just embrace everyone. That's why you will see in Mahem everywhere. You will see love is a religion.
Christine Mason 25:09
Yeah, you said I read somewhere that you said that love is the method. Love at scale. When you have hundreds of children, homes for elderly women, homes for mental illness, they have to have systems and some level of protection. So I wonder how you are keeping the systems from swallowing the love and tenderness.
Sister Lucy Kurien 25:29
Yeah. See, every morning and every evening also, we have meditation and we have the songs that are sung to the divine energy, not taking any particular religion, because for nearly 18 years the president of our trust was a Muslim. Before that, they were Hindus. So all our board members are also all from different religion, because what I felt was to love people, no religion should come in our way, and to work along with my the president who was Muslim was such a joy. Because she never converted me to Islam, neither did I convert her to Christianity. We both remained what we are till today, and we are together for the past 29 years. And the president, he is a Hindu, okay, and he is working with me for the past 30 years. I have no problem. When it comes to any religious practice, it is their own. My whole thing is that embrace everyone, love everyone.
Christine Mason 26:45
The other thing is, it's not just the faith that moved me, the interfaith. It's that there's so much education that you're doing by saving people, particularly around mental illness. You told a story about a woman who was chained to a tree. I don't remember the details. Maybe you could tell that story, and then and then sort of how it impacted how people understood mental illness.
Sister Lucy Kurien 27:07
Yeah, you mean to say the women? I tell many stories. Are they in Meyer? Myer is full of stories. That's why I don't. I don't go for any movies because we see everything live here.
Christine Mason 27:19
Yeah, you don't need to go any movies. You told a story of like a woman who was chained to a tree, and you walk by, and you're like, "Why is she chained
Speaker 2 27:26
under the train? Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Christine Mason 27:29
Yeah, yeah, and that and that was such an illustration of a misunderstanding of mental illness.
Speaker 3 27:34
Yeah, because you know what happened in a system, people with mental illness was considered as possessed by evil. Your people did not understand. It is a mental illness. Okay, so many people believe they don't understand what is mental illness. Of course, the educated one in the cities they do understand now, but in the the practices in the village, it is it will take long to change, and you know. So I was going to one of the interior village because I was invited to do some work there. So we were going to that village, and you know, as I was passing through that village, I could hear you know groaning, crying. I said, "Who is this? I turned around to see from where this yelling was coming, like a sound was coming. So I turned round and I saw one woman. She was really chained onto a tree, and people, you know, like they used to throw some food for her. It was near near a sewage, you know, very open sewage. There she was tied, and people used to throw some banana, chapatis, you know, the food that this thing, and she used to survive on that. When I reached there and I asked the people why is she chained, then they said no, no, no, don't go there. She is possessed by evil. I immediately understood. No, she is she is suffering from mental illness. So I requested the people to unchain her. So nobody was touching her. I said, "Can I do it? So people said no because she runs around and she pollutes the thing, and she will beat and all. I said no, no, no, no. So I went, I sat with her, I hugged her, and I said, "You come with me. So the people were not very reluctant because they thought like you know I met take a seller kidney or you know things because people also don't know me so then they refused so after some time I went I did not go further to do the work that I had come to do I went back and I went to the. Village leaders and I said, "See, this lady is suffering from mental illness, and I look after such people. So please send me with me. And I had a jeep with me. So then finally, the village leaders and I told them, "You also come with me, and if you are not happy to the place where I am taking, I will give you the jeep back, and I will bring her back. That much I promised. And her husband also was there. She was working in a village, and he came, and he also said she cannot be touched. And all I said, no, you leave it to me. And we had one of our Holy Cross convent houses that time, little close by. So I said, "Give her to me. I said, and as soon as I released the chain from her leg, you know, she was so happy. It was like you know, the chain has rubbed inside her flesh, and it was so bad. And I had to cut it, and with the help of the people, and then we released her from that thing, and we took her to the convent because she was stinging, you know, so we could not have sat long time with her. So I gave her a bath, cleaned her hair, cut her hair because it was all matted. So cut the hair, I put clean clothes and made it beautiful. And I gave her some tea and thing, also a bit of a sedation, so that you know she doesn't trouble me, and they told me she will break the jeep and things like that. So I sedated a little bit, little bit, and then I took her because I had a nurse also with me, and I brought her along with her and with the village from the village two leaders and her husband. They all came to a home and they found where I was treating all this mental missing because we had quite a big number in that house. When they found that building and the thing, all the treatment that we were giving, they were so happy. They told me, "Is it okay? All these people were also. I said, "It's they worse than this. I said condition. I've brought them.
Sister Lucy Kurien 32:03
They'll. She'll be okay. You won't believe. Within six months, she started responding so well to the treatment, and she also, you know, like she started learning to stitch because she is not educated. But I, you know, we put a newspaper and we showed her how to cut and all, and she's very intelligent, very very intelligent. So she managed to started cutting clothes and stitching and all that. So after some time, she told me, "Can I go back home? I have unthinking of my children and all that. Then I phoned to these people. I said, "Can you all come? And they said, "No, no, we cannot come. We are afraid to take her. I said, "You come and see. Don't take her. If you allow this thing. And as soon as she saw her husband, she was so happy, smiling, and she had put very clean clothes that day. And they asked me, "Really, is she like this? I said, "Yes. And if anything happens, I will take her back. I said, "No problem. So then they said, "Okay, we will go to the village back and tell the people what has happened, and afterwards we will come to take her. I said, "Okay, no problem. And I told her also, "You wait, they will come and take you. She was little sad they didn't take her. But then she started. I said you start stitching more so that you know when you go back you can earn your living and things like that. So she went on stitching, and after one month her husband came with the same village leaders, and they took her back. You know now she is earning for her family with that type of stitching. She only stitches only the common things what the people in that village use. She cannot do more like that because she's not educated. Even touching a scissors was first time in our house for her. So you know, because she had not seen the face of the school, so all that we taught her, we taught her to sign, we taught her how to open a bank account, and all that we have done. So you know, when he when she went back, she started looking after her children, and she started having bath. Before that, she was not doing anything, even her own nails and all. She would never cut, so we taught her everything, and we told her also this medication you have to take lifelong. That's what doctor told us, and she still takes. And now I don't have much contact with her, but for two three years I used to send her medicine, and she said, "Now I can find this medicine. I have, I have money to buy. She's now doing well. That's what I heard, you know. So this kind of stories, I have hundreds of them. This
Christine Mason 34:51
idea that mental illness, demonic possession, that piece. You now say that if people see someone acting like. They bring them to you. Yeah, so that's changed
Sister Lucy Kurien 35:04
because now we have a lot of big number of people. As I told you, 75 senders now, 75 homes, and we have nearly more than 1200 women now with us, and we have men also. We have open homes for men because they were also suffering people, and of course, children. We have nearly 1000 children in different homes. They all are going to school. They are doing professional training, and you know, four of them now they are in Germany. Four of them are in America. So you know, our children have reached into high positions. Now they are earning so well. So you know they think of Maher. They help back my hair. Those who can, because they themselves also they identify the poor people and they help there. So they also doing that way. Yeah, I
Christine Mason 35:54
love that you're working with men also, and I know we met through Jerry and the gender reconciliation work, gender equity work. You've recently participated in that bringing men and women together. What do you think that men need to hear, or what healing do you see as possible between the sexes now?
Sister Lucy Kurien 36:14
Oh my God! At least in the West, I can see that a lot of change has taken place, and the same way in India, where men and women there was a big disparity. But in the with the educated people, maybe 10% is making a lot of change, but over 90% we we have not gained that type of freedom. What you all are looking at in the villages, and only if you go, the patriarchal system is very, very strong, and that will take very long to change. If all of us work together, maybe some changes will take place, but it will take very long to change the attitude of Amen, and I'm very happy. You know, organizations like Gary and other organizations are coming forward to understand the problem of women, especially in India. You know, but it will take time because you know, even women themselves, we are not prepared to change, even though the sometimes the men are ready, but women are still not ready to take that change. They still think that they are only meant for running the house, not more than that. So women who have taken up good jobs, but still they have to also run the house on their own. Very few men are coming forward. Men who are in abroad and all, of course, because you know the equal hours and work and things like that. There is so they change a lot. But back in India, it is still a big struggle for women.
Christine Mason 38:01
So the move is both inside the woman's heart, and that's the community an example in some way, like watching other women do it. Beautiful, you know. You're speaking to this occupation and ability to inhabit your fullness, both to these women in the villages, but also you said it to the Pope. Yeah, you went straight to the. You met popes and prime ministers and presidents, but then you know. Oh, what I love about you is you're so humble. You like both like cleaning wounds and cooking meals and you know having ice cream sometimes, and then you can actually go and treat a pope or president the same way. I just love that quality in you. So, what did you say, Pope? What did you say?
Sister Lucy Kurien 38:44
Yeah, I happened. You know, it was such a golden opportunity for me to meet with Pope Francis. He was so open-minded man. I spoke to him about Maher, and then I also spoke to him. You know about the conditions of women religious, how he can advise us to change the way we are thinking and to ask them to go into the village, into the periphery, and look after the people instead of running schools and hospitals. And in that way, I also told him, "Please think how you can give women an opportunity to be a priest. Of course, he just smiled, but he did not give me yes or no. But I put my desires forward. You know, like I felt, you know, if women gets an opportunity at the altar, many things can change because this patriarchal system, especially in the Catholic Church, we need to look at it in a different way. You know. What happens is that the even our nuns are not ready yet, okay. And when will we ever be ready if you don't ask for it?
Christine Mason 40:09
I love that you said please ordain women to the to Pope Francis. That question of like in Catholicism, how you got male only and an unmarried masculine leadership has so much history to it. Like I think people don't realize that it wasn't that way in the beginning. Women and men held ministry together.
Sister Lucy Kurien 40:29
Yeah, as long as men are ruling, they will never make us think differently. You know, there should be people to make us to think differently. Why can't we be the leaders. Why can't we administer? Why you know? So they are not wanting to give away that power, no? So they will never encourage us. There may be one or two priests who are talking about it, but majority of them they are very happy with that power they have. It is not going to come through very easily.
Christine Mason 41:04
There's something that happened in your story, but I also encounter it in many women. That something happens to kind of wake you up where you can't stand it anymore. You've been going along, behaving, being a good girl, following the rules, doing what society expects of you, and then something so morally repugnant happens to wake you up, like that night with the woman who was burned, and then you can't take the dissonance, and something grows in your faith or in your spirit, and you're just now you're the half and half, now you're our nishwara, now you're so strong inside, and a heart that's so open, and that that waking up transcends your own desire to be approved or to survive. So, so there's something we should not require that kind of crisis to wake up to the possibility of doing your biggest, biggest and best service. Yeah,
Sister Lucy Kurien 41:56
for me, I feel it should be like women also should not be like overpowering, you know. It should be like equal, you know. Like how how you call win-win situation. It is not like you know from the top we have to because we still have the Vatican is telling us the men is. I'm very happy that in the Vatican now they are slowly changing. There are many roles that they are given to the women, but that is not enough. The women are educated now. The nuns are also educated. Why can't we have more leading roles? You know, and even if it is given to us, we are not prepared to take. That's another problem, and because we are so used to men telling us what has to be done, so and naturally they are getting all this respect and worships. So who wants to give away that? So naturally they are very happy with that. It is our fault. We are not asking for it, and those who are asking are very few, or they are crushed down. So, what can the church do unless there is a strong demand? It is not going to come through.
Christine Mason 43:16
Yeah, grassroots movement, people inside asking. So, I would like to ask you now, as you approach this 30th anniversary of the first home, and you already have such an impact. What is your prayer for Maher going forward? What is your vision?
Sister Lucy Kurien 43:33
Of course, I am preparing just now because I am already 71 completing. So you know, my I am focusing on now how I can give my leadership to people, you know, to carry on my hair, take my hair forward. That is one of the things that I am getting focused on, and at the same time, I am also focusing, you know, the the type of education that we are giving to the children and to the staff, it should be different. What I mean is, take more. You know, if I if you come to see Mahab, most of the leadership I'm giving to the women, and we have men equally men number here. Okay, but leadership roles I'm giving to women. There are men also here, but what I am trying to do is, like organization like Maher should make a difference in this world. Maybe in a you know just a drop in that what he called the ocean of people. Okay, but what I can see is how we can share this type of leadership to the women, not only look at the men and tell them you take the lead. No, give it to the women. That is what I am thinking. In at least in an organization like Maher,
Christine Mason 44:51
like a leadership academy inside of rescue work.
Sister Lucy Kurien 44:55
Exactly. See, there are still many more people in. Inviting me to open homes. So what I am trying to tell them: see, instead of inviting me, you come learn, and you can take it forward. It is not very difficult because people, you know, in a country we are so much grown up with the poor. You understand? We are born into the lap of the poverty. So what happens is that our feelings for the poor, or the mentally disturbed, or the suffering people get killed when we are very young, because we grow up into a helpless situation. So you know, it becomes a natural thing to see people on the street.
Christine Mason 45:44
You become numb.
Speaker 4 45:45
Numb. So I am making our people wake up. What are we seeing on the street? What is happening? Why are our hearts like this? Turn back. Look at your heart. You know, this is what I am trying to tell all our social workers: don't take only a job here, but go beyond that and look why the people are suffering. If there is something, when you see a problem, find a solution. Don't just close your eyes. You know these are the things, at least to the social workers and to my youth who are in Maher, I'm teaching them: don't close your eyes. Okay, when there is a problem, check what you can do. Don't pass by.
Christine Mason 46:32
This is beautiful because basically you are pointing to the human tendency to get paralyzed by the scale of the world's pain,
Sister Lucy Kurien 46:41
yeah,
Christine Mason 46:43
and and instead to like focus on the one thing you can do, right here,
Sister Lucy Kurien 46:47
can do. Yeah, exactly. I tell them that you know sometimes maybe you cannot do the the way I am doing, but in our own way we can do something. Find out what is that. Don't say that I am so helpless. No, there is something that you can do. You know, this where I am trying to educate my children, educating the women and the staff who are with me because big number of staff are with me. So you know, I am trying to make them to think in a different way. These are the small things, of course, I'm doing. And wherever I get an opportunity, speak about it. Make the people understand why this problem of India, what is happening now, and things like that. Of course, I know we require a lot of patience. Sometimes, you know I feel oh my God I'm already 71 when am I you know when will I see this change you know sometimes I'm I'm I can see that I'm getting little bit impatient but I said that's not going to do help anyway you know getting impatient with anything we have to go with the flow by that make the people to become aware what's happening? How we can do things in a small way, change what we can, and of course some things we cannot change. Okay, but and to accept also things. Of course, it will take time because and that strength will come. I think only when we are really connected to the the strong divine energy, for that we need that. Also, when we hear the constantly, constantly we are listening to problems, so it can take away our real joy. You know, all the time listening to sorrow and more sorrows. You know, it can become. So I try my level best, in spite of all the pains that are around me. Still, how to be calm with how to be connected to that divine energy, so that you know I don't lose my mental peace and to spread joy wherever I go.
Christine Mason 49:01
This is and you're modeling also what a good society would do. It would provide sanctuary for those in trouble, healthcare, education, equity and respect. And if you could, and then people take care of themselves. If you create the container, they thrive. Let's have that wish together for all of humanity,
Sister Lucy Kurien 49:22
one small piece what I forgot is that you know how we work towards nature. That I want to tell you also, because you know it's not only like work for people, but at the same time take care of our mother earth. You know, the we have lot of problems with water and the pollution and all that, and how we can help in this kind of thing. So we take up a lot of programs to make the people aware of what is happening, how we can plant more trees, and how we can do water harvesting. And things like that, you know, we do a lot of things to protect the nature. So that is also part of the our work. It's not only like saving people from the street, but also how to keep some good nature for the generations that is coming up. Otherwise, what are we keeping for our children and children's children? So I'm constantly aware what is happening. We do a lot of things about that too.
Christine Mason 50:29
I adore you. I'm so excited. I can't wait to come visit you. Thank you so much for being with us.
Sister Lucy Kurien 50:35
Thank you so much, Kristina, for what you are doing. It's such a great thing.
Christine Mason 50:42
Well, thank you so much for being with me today. That was Sister Lucy Kurien of Maher. I keep thinking about the architecture of her story. Every tradition tells us that the heart breaks open, but Sister Lucy shows us what you do the morning after your heart breaks open. You buy a small piece of land. You accept the two rupee donations. You build a room and then another. Compassion in her hands is carpentry, not just feeling something for people, not pathos. If her story moved something in you, there are real ways to act on it. Maher welcomes support, and as she said, welcomes visitors and learners. You'll find the links in our show notes. But if India is too far away, or not calling you? Her instruction was, don't pass by. Somewhere within miles of you tonight is a person or a category of persons the world has decided not to see. You can't do everything. You can't save all the starfish, as that old parable goes. But you can do the one thing in front of you. If you have love in your heart, everything is possible. And on a more generic note, whatever we don't include and what we don't see in the culture is the shadow that comes back to hurt us. So you don't want to look at the prisoner or the causes of why we are the country in the world with the largest percentage of incarcerated people. You don't want to look at the conditions and the culture which which makes that happen. You don't want to look at the elder stuffed away into a home. You don't want to look at homeless children, abused women. Then you are denying the symptoms of the illnesses that result from separation thinking, and that illusion, my friends, is the thing that we can fix together, starting from the inside, knowing who you really are, part of the one light, an emanation of the one light, as is everyone else. So, to the creation of a more just and loving society, out of our more just and trusting and integrated and coherent hearts, a more beautiful world. You know that Rosebud Woman is the company that I have founded eight years ago now to support women's health and intimate wellness, and we have a reverence fund that deals with the out picturing of the things that result from not having reverence and respect for the feminine in the world, such as domestic abuse or women's healthcare bias or reproductive care. So this month our donation partner is Maher, and if you are so inclined at checkout, please add a little extra to your cart, and that will be a supplement to what we already are sending to this incredible woman and her organization. So thank you so much. That's automatically added. The Reverend's Fund donations are automatically done through your checkout. You don't need a code or anything, but please add on what you can. Thank you for being here today. If you like this work, if you like the theme and the way that we discuss topics, if you feel something moving in you and you want to go deeper into the traditions that are based on classical tantra, but at the intersection of modern embodiment and modern life, I would love to have you in a course, or an immersion, or in any of the contexts in which we share these ideas about how to do just that-be liberated on the inside, love our lives, love our embodiment, and create a more just world from that-so come find me, ChristineMarieMason.com or my company, RoseWoman.com, for the best in body and intimate care and reverent lifestyle offerings, all love, all the time.
